BHB:
117 responses
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ditto
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This is quite interesting — there are several people who I respect highly that write on BHB. I wonder, at these times, if they enjoy the possibility of increased traffic because of an outburst from Greg, or if they question their involvement….
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Having spoken to a few, they’re not even sure why they’re there except for the traffic. If not for that, they’d be gone.
I’ve actively tried to get a couple to switch to Agent Genius, though I think I’m too old to be there half the time these days.
That some people are paying $150 to listen to the alleged gospel of marketing is stunning to me. As I’ve said more than once, I’ll be in a nearby bar enjoying a better and more fruitful conversation at a lower cost.
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Any hints as to what it said? The site won’t load on my end. Or is that why you unsubscribed?
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Nevermind, the cache finally loaded
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Whoa – a full fledge blog war – the battle lines have been drawn
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ok – well it didn’t like my additional (sitting back with fresh popcorn and a soda to watch the battle’s)
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I “unsubscribed” the first time he did it a long time ago. Dare I go watch the train wreck…again.
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Me too Ardell
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LOL “Long time ago” blogging = dog years. Not sure I am missing much over there. I prefer some of the individuals blogs more than the BHB
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What a self-righteous punk. We’re from the media business and I am extremely new to the RE space… currently investing in yet-another-RE-startup. When I see things like what this Swann is writing about 1000Watt, I realize that most of these RE agent and broker-bloggers are only interested in writing to other RE brokers and agents, not to local consumers. This is what makes our new business interesting. I just don’t think clowns like Greg Swann know what their doing.
4Realz and FOREM are truly great B2B blogs and have helped me understand the industry quickly, much like Inman. But for the life of me, I still don’t understand the economic motivation behind the majority of RE bloggers writing about the industry…how does that make an agent or broker money. I barely understand ActiveRain…why do brokers and agents want to talk to each other. What is the dynamic? Is the motivation just to be a part of something, to have one’s voice heard, or is it to make money somehow? Any insight would be appreciated.
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didn’t have to unsubscribe, never subscribed.
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Dustin, MOVE just hired Patty Mitchell as SVP of Consumer Media; she is to be based out of NYC. She was formerly a top honcho at Six Apart, the makers of Movable Type and TypePad blogging solutions. Does this mean MOVE is trying to make another move into blogging after the whole ActiveRain debacle? Your thoughts?
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“But for the life of me, I still don’t understand the economic motivation behind the majority of RE bloggers writing about the industry…how does that make an agent or broker money”
It’s a mystery wrapped in an enigma, as they say.
Let’s suppose for a minute that there’s not always an economic motive….at least not an obvious one.
What if….
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Holy crap!
I was actually somewhat afraid to leave a comment which isn’t like me.
Here is what I wanted to ask: “Greg, you have made it clear that attacking the person instead of the argument is not allowed on BHB. Does this rule not apply to you?”
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>unsubscribed.
Why?
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I couldn’t quite verbalize to others why I like 4realz.net, now I have a post that I can point to.
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Why? ? Have you been drinking too much kool-aid?
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“Why? ? Have you been drinking too much kool-aid?”
It’s not nice to answer a question with a question, or to disparage the questioner by implying they are delusional from drinking spiked kool-aid.
Not nice at all.
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Mike,
Nothing about this entire episode is “nice”. Interesting that you chose my comment to open a discussion about “nice”. I meant what I said. There is a lot of kool-aid drinking going on. Greg has attacked a lot of “nice” people and their blogs, mine included, without regard for the people or their business. I don’t feel “nice” about this one.
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The thing is, Laurie, that I’ve been attacked many times online. I never thought about whether it was fair or nice.
What I did, if I thought it was worth the effort, was engage the person who attacked me. If we couldn’t come to an understanding and we left adversaries, at least the person respected me as an adversary, or understood me a little better.When we post publicly and make self-aggrandizing statements, it should be expected to be attacked from time to time by those we rub the wrong way. There is nothing wrong with be criticized; you either take in stride or you present yourself and your ideas to the person in an effort to promote understanding.
If you are going to be bold in your blogging then you need to have the self-esteem and confidence to weather criticism and ridicule. When I read the blog in question, I had a visceral reaction that was negative. So what?
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>Have you been drinking too much kool-aid?
sigh
>Nothing about this entire episode is “nice”.
Agreed.
I have a curious mind. I have respect for Dustin. 1 post and 21 comments and not a word from Dustin on why. Just wondering if he would expand a bit. Should not be misconstrued as an attack, simply a quest for more information on my part.
I can be very very nice: Why, please? 🙂
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Do the details as to why really matter? Would seem something in that post made Dustin decide to unsubscribe. Isn’t that enough?
I interpret it as “I don’t care for what is in this post, hence I don’t feel the desire to subscribe any more.
I’m not sure why we need to understand the intimate details of Dustin’s thought process.
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I unsubscribed as well, right after reading that post.
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Teri: Plenty of people have talked about the good, the bad and the ugly of the post, so there is no reason for me to pile in as well.
Obviously, the post and follow up comments do not reflect particularly well on some of the people involved. However, I honestly wish no ill will on anyone involved, and rather than back them further into a defensive corner, I’m going to leave my opinions out of the discussion in order to leave more space for these people to see the error of their ways, apologize profusely, and re-enter our community in a constructive manner.
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Who, exactly, has been backed in a defensive corner?
I was one of the ones who made a follow up comment. I thought the “rock star” post was over the top and unintendedly comical. I still feel that way.
“I’m going to leave my opinions out of the discussion in order to leave more space for these people to see the error of their ways, apologize profusely, and re-enter our community in a constructive manner.”
This is what I’m talking about. Scary.
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Jay-
>I’m not sure why we need to understand the intimate details of Dustin’s thought process.We don’t. But.
Then why blog about it. Why bring this up at all? Dustin wants “our community” to know he unsubscribed…Dustin-
>I’m going to leave my opinions outWith all due respect, too late.
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I’m confused by the opposition to the “Rock Star” post or why anyone would think it’s over the top? I read it as a call to arms. The truth is we agents all do look alike in so many ways and that article made it painfully clear. It made me think how much I’ve done or not done to distinguish myself from my competition. I don’t even blog yet. Honestly, that article woke me up. Greg’s in turn, made me sick. It made me embarrassed. I suspect others, perhaps Dustin as well, were affected in kind.
I’ve read the bios of the authors of 1000Watt. These are respected people in our business. For what it’s worth, they seem overly qualified to talk about the issues they write about and I am thankful they contribute. Mental midgets? They seem far from it.
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Dustin,
I’m curious about your timing. Why did it take you 4 days to come to this public denunciation of the Bloodhound Blog?
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With Dustin and Joel both taking an anti-BHB stance, it is clear that 1000Watt is a far more powerful industry player than BHB. And much more likable, it seems. Anyway, it seems the two most powerful industry bloggers are not going to show BHB any love and would rather support 1000Watt.
Honestly, Brian Brady, for the sake of BHB, you should tell Greg Swann to apologize as quickly as possible. There is no other way to end this feud. A personal attack on the 1000Watt folks was really uncalled for. It was offensive. Everyone would like to see Greg Swann apologize.
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I agree. It’s got to be humiliating to Greg Swann that the ‘mental midgets’ have way more pull among the industry heavies than he does. This public humiliation couldn’t be happening to a more deserving guy.
I predict an apology within 48 hours.
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“Anyway, it seems the two most powerful industry bloggers”
Which industry is that, Jay? I think you all forget that we are the players, they’re just toolmakers.
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Brian, I watched you speak at Inman on the panel with Dustin. I agreed with you even more than I did with Dustin. Blogging should be about ROI especially on the broker/agent end. I felt you hit it on the head with the call to action that’s missing from most RE blogs. You always talk about your goal of 1200 leads before 2010. Would you ever write something like Greg Swann did? Would that help your business in anyway? I know you never would because it simply wouldn’t make any business sense. You should advice Greg on the what the true purpose of RE blogging is: Making money.
I disagree with your assessment that agent/brokers are players anymore than the toolmakers are. Buyers and sellers are the only players. Consumers pay agents/brokers. And Agents and brokers pay the industry ‘toolmakers’ for advertising, technology, what-have-you. Now, there are basically 2 parts of the RE.net; the industry toolmakers and the agent/brokers.
I come to this blog for the industry insights of Dustin about other ‘toolmakers’ such as Roost, Zillow, Redfin, Trulia, Realtor.com, Vendasta, and various other emerging technologies and platforms. For me, broker/agent blogs looking to gain the attention of consumers are not what I am looking to read. (You frankly don’t want me either considering that I live in the East and am not a lead for you.) For readers like me, 4Realz and FOREM are indispensable. They are the new form of B2B industry media.
For industry folks interested in selling solutions to agents and brokers, alienating or disparaging the 1000Watt folks seems improper. They’re smart. They seem like good guys. They didn’t say anything offensive to Greg. Also note, they can’t say anything offensive. That’s the assymetric dynamic to this feud: No industry player looking to sell solutions, consult, or partner with one another is going to post something so crazy. It has to be civil on the basis of economics alone. The only reason Greg can disparage someone among the toolmakers is because his dollars are not going to be affected one iota by his reputation among industry folks…most don’t live in Phoenix.
And Joel and Dustin are not going to let someone among the industry get disparaged like that. I think Joel and Dustin saying little is perfect and classy.
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Jay,
I agree with much of what you said…about consumer-focused weblogs.
Bloodhound Blog is an industry blog. It’s focused on how practitioners use technology to enhance their marketing efforts. It is most certainly agent focused because it discusses how we might use their tools or not use their tools. Our candid critical analysis is what makes us so relevant; no sugar-coating there.
We took it so far as to organize our own conference with US in the center. Oh boy, that’s when the fireworks started. As soon as we dared to encroach upon “their turf” and out the agent BACK in the driver’s seat, the mob became unsettled.
Give a few days, you’ll see the whole thing play out. You’ll see more and more of the play on the “un” theme is a deliberate attempt to discredit us.
Follow the money, Jay.
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“Bloodhound Blog is an industry blog. It’s focused on how practitioners use technology to enhance their marketing efforts.”
Riiight. Don’t mean to offend you, Brian, au contraire, I respect and appreciate your insight into the mortgage business, but just do me a favor and take a look at Greg Swann’s latest post on BHB. According to your statement that I quoted above, technically, we (who are commenting here) would then be his audience. Whom he charmingly refers to as the “mob”, because we find his uncivilized rant offensive. It’s not the first time either. It started out with some guy from the Arizona MLS whom he verbally vicitmized because the Arizona MLS doesn’t accommodate the Safari browser yet. Next, Rothamel had to bite the bullet, because of a video he produced that didn’t meet Mr. Swann’s approval. And now, Marc Davison is the mental midget, because he offered some harmless marketing advice to Realtors.
And this person wants me to pay him money to come to Phoenix and attend his seminar. If that’s not the definition of delusional, Brian, I don’t know what is.
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Mark A.
To the point. I couldn’t add a syllable.
Brian– “mob” is a convenient lazy buzzword meant to lump everyone in an unpleasant wrapper for easy handling– don’t underestimate the individuality of the so-called mobsters. They are the ones who you risk alienating by refusing to acknowledge the personal attacks of Greg Swann. You do acknowledge they are personal attacks, don’t you? It is GS’ “poor timing” which is tarnishing his/your conference — not the faceless mob.
The “fireworks” started with the post Mark cited. And as Mark pointed out, it was not the first time. The one discrediting his/your conference is Swann. People of principle are standing up in opposition to a man with a clear history of demeaning and insulting commentary, and no sense of it. If you plan to teach marketing, you ought to know that your brand, which is BHB (I’ve seen the conference logo), should not spew ad hominem attacks on other bloggers– it’s certainly no way for real estate agents to get business. And if you plan to give me the “do as I say, not as I do” Swannism, save it.
Yes, we are all big boys & girls and can take his “uncivilized rants”. But we DON’T have to support them or him. I don’t. I would think you would take a stand — but perhaps calling out your business partner makes the decision a tough one, perhaps impossible for you. But then again you may think there was no personal attack– that would be eye-opening to me. Do you see it as a personal attack, Brian? You have steadfastly refused to answer. But as I told you, as a friend, I think you should give your answer. If you think it is, you should scold your partner, not the mob. You know what they say about sleeping with dogs.
But do me a favor and stop making it all about “your” conference– it insults my intelligence. It is, and will remain, about Greg Swann. When he crashes the car don’t blame the mob because you chose the passenger seat.
Lastly, take a look at those missing from the BHB contributing author sidebar— Jay Thompson, Kris Berg & Jim Duncan. All are respected bloggers. Either you lump them in the mob or controlled by the mob— or you take their actions to tell you something.
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*sigh* So much to say…. I must ponder exactly what, if anything I want/need to say about this whole sordid mess.
I would like to make two things crystal clear though.
1) The Bloodhound Unchained conference had absolutely nothing to do with my decision to stop contributing to Bloodhound Blog.
And 2) I don’t appreciate at all anyone implying that I am part of some sort of “mob” or attempting to discredit anyone.
It’s late, and I need to sleep. More is likely to follow…
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“Normally, when the RE.net goes through
one of these public breast-beating episodes,
I just stay out of it. I don’t read the posts,
first because they’re stupid and comical…”Does anyone believe this? If Greg is so far above the stupidity and the comedy, why bother reading articles from “mental midgets”, compose lengthy attacks and then publish them? What kind of person does that? For whose benefit was that intended if not ours, his readers or should I now say, mobsters.
Greg now writes in his latest post – “if, on the other hand, you want to learn how to organize your working life so that you never again have to take $#@! from morons, you’ve come to the right place.”
Take $#@!t? From morons? My god. This sounds more unhinged than it does unchained. Mark A nailed it. Delusional. Thought I contend the 1000Watt post was not harmless advice at all but actually poignant enough to threaten Swan. Otherwise why attack in the first place?
As for the video Greg advises watching, I’m perplexed. The song was written by Johnny Cash after a failed suicide attempt (pills and booze). It’s about getting his life in order and mending the mistakes of his past.
If Johnny knew this song would serve as an anthem for a man who terrorizes others for personal gain he’d roll over in his grave. Not backing down from an apology or the wisdom of this crowd is an affront to the song, it’s meaning and this audience.
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Can someone explain how Swann can put on the marketing conference of century when he a) can’t recognize the marketing savvy of a fellow writer who was schooled and experienced in the advertising industry and b) has found a way to totally blow his own marketing campaign?
What in the world can he possibly offer in the way of marketing education when it appears he can’t do it for himself or recognize the skills of others?
Brian’s silence on the attack question speaks volumes. It clearly was a personal attack. And what gets me is how these marketing experts can’t seem to figure out how to market their way out of this one.
It seems to me a simple apology would be a great start. But what do I know. I was a biology major.
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Greg Swann is an egomaniac who is only interested in driving traffic to his blog. He also obviously doesn’t realize that being an ass is bad for business.
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“I’m confused by the opposition to the “Rock Star” post or why anyone would think it’s over the top? I read it as a call to arms. The truth is we agents all do look alike in so many ways and that article made it painfully clear.”
Ryan, let me see if I can explain it. I have been in marketing and sales in one form or another for 30 years. I’ve sat through countless conferences, seminars and workshops and have heard every conceivable angle and analogy.
Every once in a while someone comes along with the right amount of insight and ability to express in words something very valuable and career changing — I listened to those people because they earned the right to be taken seriously.
I’m sure I’m old and jaded and that Marc’s post resonated with people he knows and are of his age group. But for me it takes a lot to be able to pull something like that off — someone telling me how to market by being a rock star. It came off to me as comical and my first impulse was a satirical impulse.
I’m sure he’s a great guy with lots of buds, but when you are posting publicly, readers are diverse, with different backgrounds and levels of experience — so when posting publicly, either write with an understanding of the diversity or expect criticism from those that it affects negatively. It’s no big deal. I’m sure I’ll write something that a 30 something (and they have) will call old man trash and suggest I retire to a golf community in Florida.
Not everyone is going to buy our stuff — so be it.
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Wow..controversy..and for once nobody is outside of my office with signs and pitchforks..I’ll have to sit back and watch the fireworks on this one…love to have you guys on the show!
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“I’m sure I’m old and jaded and that
Marc’s post resonated with people he
knows and are of his age group. But
for me it takes a lot to be able to pull
something like that off — someone
telling me how to market by being a
rock star. It came off to me as comical
and my first impulse was a satirical impulse.”I don’t get it. It bothers you that someone writes an article aimed at inspiring us to be as unique as we can but Greg Swann’s high horse, antisocial antics don’t?
Your logic is inconsistent.
Mike, look at what we as agents and as companies have done to NOT stand out. Here in my office we all the use the same website vendor, the same postcard vendor and the same coach. We are all clones as Marc points out.
I don’t find that comical in the least. I also don’t find it age specific. I’m over 50. Has it occurred to you that maybe you represent the rock star Marc writes about?
His message to reach inside and find our unique voice and be different resonated with me and with many inside my office young and old. None of know who he is. I don’t believe age has anything to do with it. I think being so invested in Greg Swann’s POV does.
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Hold on a minute. I resent the implication that my answer is disingenuous. This has nothing to do with anyone else’s POV. I gave you an honest answer — the “rock star” post, as I said, may resonate with some, it appeared over the top and shrill to me. That’s it. No big deal.
This damning by association is a weak trick. I stand alone in my judgements.
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Mike – You resent your answer characterized as ‘disingenuous’, but you don’t think calling people ‘mental midgets’ and ‘parasites’ should be offensive. If he left out the demeaning terms, no one would have had a problem with Greg’s criticism of 1000Watt. This has nothing to do with 1000Watt’s original post or its contents. It makes no difference.
I don’t know anyone that wishes to sell solutions to agents/brokers and wants to exist in an industry ecosystem that would go off like that. Except Greg Swann, that is.
This is an interesting case-study. How much criticism and pressure can a person withstand before apologizing. It is like when an announcer says something demeaning or racist and waits for the storm to end rather than end it with a simple “I’m sorry.”
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Where did I say calling people “mental midgets” and “parasites” was not offensive?
I’ll wait while you pull it up.
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This is the problem with this sort of stuff. No one listens because they have prejudged. That is offensive as well.
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My point exactly Jay.
Mike, shrill to me is Greg’s posturing. It’s Greg’s claim that he alone is the rock star and that only he is qualified enough to dub another a rock star. Shrill is Greg posturing that he alone has all the marketing answers and that he alone is the way. Shrill is blacklisting and deleting blogs posted on his shrill.
Shrill is writing garbage like this “I don’t go out of my way to set the wannabe elite into public paroxysms of rubbing blue mud into their navels — “Me special, too! Me special like you!” — but I’m not going to betray your interests — or my own — to avoid it.”
The guy is the last person to call anyone anything. He is over the top. This isn’t even good writing. It’s just sickening rhetoric and it embarrasses me to see even 1 member of our industry talk this way. If anything, by his latest round of actions, I say, the MM hat fits well on his own head.
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So, you aren’t going to apologize for calling me a liar, Ryan?
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Of course I would. Or will. Can you point out where I referred to you as such? That would have been out of character for me.
Interesting though that you call for an apology but yet remain aloof to whether or not Greg’s slander of a fellow blogger warrants apology.
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Good on you Dustin. I also unsub’d after the post – I now have my individual feeds up for Lani (AG, what what), Jeff Brown and Brian. I still can’t believe Jeff Brown & Lani still write at that site, but …. c’est la vie
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My answers will be on my website. I have found this so interesting I think it needs to be put into context and summarized.
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Can’t we all just get along…I mean really!!!
Oh yeah and…What part of this “exchange of words” benefits the consumer?
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This is nothing new. Why unsubscribe now?
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Laurie
FLAWLESS COMMENT!!!!!
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WRETCHED.
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It really is a shame how communities will implode from many angles. I have been blogging for over 4 years now, on real estate for 2.5 of them.
What is truly amazing is that the real estate world is following the same trends that the political and social blogs are doing. I was thinking that since most of the people who are writing on these sites had a professional approach that personal acrimony and resultant attacks would diminish or even cease.
But I guess that is not the case.
That is one reason why I do not get too close to the different cliches that develop and tend to be a bit of a loaner. Since this is how I make my living it is easier to lose those crosslinks from others but stay out of the fray.
One thing that we all have to remember is that the internet has a very long memory. When a battle erupts over someone doing something foolish or downright dumb, which we all are capable of I promise you, the battle scars do not go away.
Posts like these tend to get a ton of backlinks and will end up at the top of Google. So all of the good work that has been done can for reputation management can be undone for a long time.
And this includes posts like this… People may wonder about the backstory and why Dustin is pointing this out no matter how noble his intentions. It just leads downhill.
So if you are pissed at someone over what they have written or said, take it offline. Bury the hatchett but do not let yourself and your reputation get sullied.
Tom
PS For the record I got caught up in a broohaa like this calling out Michelle Malkin. Sure it felt good to call her out at the time but for the next 2 years the top post on Google when you searched for the site was me and my partner being petty. I was not proud of it afterwards when Michelle and I made our peace. I learned my lesson, I hope you all have too.
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[…] if Dustin realizes he is an opinion leader or not. He is one. And every single person who “me too’ed” was following his lead. Looking at most of the back and forth, along with the various comments it […]
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It’s a new paradigm, and everybody who doesn’t buy, now, will be priced out forever. Anybody who does buy will be rewarded with a lifetime of riches, as their property will continue its 30% yearly price increase.
Renters, and anybody born in a future generation, will not be able to afford a $10,000,000 starter home in 15 years. They will live in tent cities, and Hondas.
This asset bubble is different than all of the others – it will never slow down, or pop. The gains are permanent.
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Incredible Agent: “This is nothing new. Why unsubscribe now?”
Uncanny, isn’t it?
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Tom Royce: “So if you are pissed at someone over what they have written or said, take it offline.”
I’ve been busy, so haven’t been following any of this. But when I followed the link in Russell’s post, I had to wonder. Dustin and many who commented on this post frequently communicate by email or by phone with Greg. Greg wrote that article about the LA Times on Wednesday — and BTW, “Greg not only said some wonderful things about (Dustin) to Ann, but also passed (Dustin’s) name along to her, which led to (Dustin’s) own contributions to the article.” After Greg’s February 13th post, which ostensibly offended Dustin so much, but before this post of his Dustin had a chance to mention his having been so offended, but instead he dropped Greg a friendly, chatty note about his new business plan. So, I asked Greg what I was wondering about. Did any of these “indignant” people, people who email you and phone you on other occasions, talk to you between February 13 and February 16 to tell you that they thought you were hard on Davison? Nope. No one. So, you gotta wonder. What’s behind it all? Why now, indeed?
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Perhaps we (commentors) should all take a break, go to our libraries and pull down our copies of “The Lottery” by Shirley Jackson and “The Scarlet Letter” by Nathaniel Hawthorne. If you recall, the ‘townspeople’ (an emblematic character in both, I think) are a little sacry. Maybe this why they teach it in junior high school along with proper puntuation.
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Some people like to throw hand grenades. It’s best to give them a wide berth.
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ps…that’s punctuation with a ‘c.’ See, we’re all just as human as the next.
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Interesting thread. But I never had an interest in BHB. Tried to read it, but found I just didn’t care enough to waste my time. There is so much more out there to read. Won’t miss them a bit.
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> Perhaps we (commentors) should all take a break
Geno – I agree. I find it interesting that the comments here and in other posts across the re.net were starting to die off, as things like this typically do.
Then another post pops up on Bloodhound, stirring it all up again.
Huh.
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Jay, What’s “typical” is “I’ve been busy, so haven’t been following any of this.” That’s a quote from another comment I made here last night (guess that was actually early this morning), which is still in moderation because it includes two links, backing up my conversation. Below is that comment in its entirety without the links. As always, I post with complete sincerity. Do you really doubt that? If not, why would you say something like that? I am not confrontational, but will always point out a falsehood whenever I notice it… Just ask Cameron.
Tom Royce: “So if you are pissed at someone over what they have written or said, take it offline.”
I’ve been busy, so haven’t been following any of this. But when I followed the link in Russell’s post, I had to wonder. Dustin and many who commented on this post frequently communicate by email or by phone with Greg. Greg wrote that article about the LA Times on Wednesday — and BTW, “Greg not only said some wonderful things about (Dustin) to Ann, but also passed (Dustin’s) name along to her, which led to (Dustin’s) own contributions to the article.” After Greg’s February 13th post, which ostensibly offended Dustin so much, but before this post of his Dustin had a chance to mention his having been so offended, but instead he dropped Greg a friendly, chatty note about his new business plan. So, I asked Greg what I was wondering about. Did any of these “indignant” people, people who email you and phone you on other occasions, talk to you between February 13 and February 16 to tell you that they thought you were hard on Davison? Nope. No one. So, you gotta wonder. What’s behind it all? Why now, indeed?
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Cathleen –
No, I do not doubt your sincerity. Never have, never will. (See my comment on Russell’s post – I said you were a doll, and I mean that)
Things like this do typically die off. This one seemed to be dying and then Russell posted. The timing seemed interesting, but it’s likely that like you, Russell was just too busy.
I will freely admit that Russell’s statement, “I will never read it again and will get the existing writers there to also leave him.” annoyed the hell out of me. Dustin had *nothing* to do with my leaving Bloodhound and I resent Russell’s implication. Hence my comment to set that part of the record straight.
Russell isn’t wrong often, but he was dead wrong about that. And I can’t just sit by and let anyone suggest that I’m playing follow the leader.
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Oops, Jay. I take it back. When I saw your response to Geno above, I thought you were saying that I was just trying to keep things stirred up. Then I saw your excellent comment on Russell’s BHB post and realized from your introduction that your above reference was to that post. (Of course, I might be off-base again.) Anyway, sorry for jumping to the wrong conclusion. (And not just because you called me a “doll” — I was going to write this even before I saw that!)
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[…] again. The brouhaha was sort of dying down, but the flames have roared into life once again, with this from Dustin Luther (obviously a great and influential blogger), then this, and this, and I’m […]
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Jay, Sorry. An example of a dolphin caught in a very wide tuna net.
I’m really not hoping to insult *anybody* or fan any flames. I would like to extend the apology to anyone else who might not be inclined to post a comment but felt insulted.
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@Cathleen: I doubt very much that Dustin unsubscribed “now” because of his new business plan. He’s had that in the works for months now and I really don’t think he’s see’s BHB as a competitor. If he did, I doubt he would go about it this way.
My point is that Greg has been a real JA to a lot of people for a long time. I don’t get why what he said about Marc and 1000watt was any different than what he’s said in the past about others. Why all these people still read BHB is beyond me and I’ve always scratched my head as to why his opinion matters anyway. It’s not like he’s been successful at anything other than taking verbose pot shots at other’s in our industry. I for one have never subscribed to his blog and never will.
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And Russ Shaw putting up a picture on bloodhoundblog of someone giving the FU middle finger is professional how? What a disgrace. Now you know why people have such disrespect for REALTORS(R)
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Incredible Agent: “I for one have never subscribed to his blog and never will.”
Never? Would I be splitting hairs by reminding you that last year you represented your company as somehow being involved with Bloodhound’s success? And when you were called on for that misrepresentation, you responded “I posted your blog because I am a reader and I believe you have good thing going.” How does it benefit you to say you “never” subscribed? If you don’t read BHB, or WSJ, or USA Today, or whatever, why should anyone care? But why should you say you don’t read BHB here, and say that you do there? How does that benefit you, except perhaps getting a high-five from the Me Too Gang?
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How many houses has Greg Swann sold in the past year?
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Cathleen: Back in comment 61, you asked the question: “Why now, indeed?”
(I’ve been traveling a ton this week, so sorry if I’m a bit behind in responding, but because of the obvious insinuations from someone who is respected in the blogging community, it seems that I should respond…)
My answer to the question “why now” is simple, if not boring….
Preparing for my first event on March 6th has been extremely time-consuming! And I probably shouldn’t admit this publicly, but I haven’t been doing a good job following posts around the RE.net lately. For the past few weeks, I’ve been laser-focused on doing outreach, marketing, program development, etc. for the 4RealzeEd events. As part of this outreach, you are right that I emailed Greg to let him know about my event (and my thoughts that we might be able to work together) between the time he posted his article about Marc and the time I posted this article.
Honestly, I simply hadn’t read Greg’s post and probably would not have gotten around to reading it except two different people brought it to my attention. The first was Jeff Turner who showed surprise over breakfast last Thursday that I hadn’t read the post. At that point, I made a mental note to check out the post, but again, I was so busy, I didn’t get around to looking it up.
A while later, a 2nd person emailed me with the link… By providing a link, they had made things so easy that I couldn’t help but click. At that point, I read the post, formed an opinion and decided to act.
Call it naive, but it never occurred to me that anyone would think that I did this to take away from Bloodhound Unchained in order to prop up my event before I hit publish. And this logic certainly doesn’t follow any of the actions that I’ve taken in reaching out to others who are creating educational events for real estate professionals around internet marketing (including conversations about my plans with Brian Brady going back to December!).
I honestly think that no one, and especially myself, has a monopoly on the best way to educate real estate professionals on how to market themselves over the internet. And rather than view things from a competitive bent, I see a group of us (I’d include Pat and Kevin in this group), who are literally creating a market for quality internet marketing education that does not exist today. If teams such as Pat and Kevin, Brian and Greg, and Jim and myself can provide a quality education then I have no doubt that all three teams can benefit as more and more real estate professionals come to the realization that they need to dramatically improve their internet marketing if they are going to stay competitive into the future.
If for no other reasons than selfish ones, I still hope that Bloodhound Unchained is a highly successful event that attracts real estate professionals from all over the country. Assuming they continue to build good buzz around their event, then I imagine I’ll be able to tap into a some of the excitement, just as Greg and Brian will presumably be able to tap into some of the excitement I hope to create around my events.
And finally, Cathleen, I’ve been avoiding responding to comments on this thread because there is a small group of people (dare I call it a “pack”) who seem to be searching for any opportunity to defend Greg by criticizing people who were offended by Greg’s comments (seeing as how we’re in the midst of a political season, it seems appropriate to call it “negative campaigning”). I don’t assume you, or anyone else, was offended by Greg’s post, but it certainly seems disingenuous for you to insinuate that those of us who were offended must have an ulterior motive.
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Dustin,
Disingenuous? From Dictionary.com: “lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere.” You believe that anything here is descriptive of me?
And let’s look at your entire concluding paragraph:
“And finally, Cathleen, I’ve been avoiding responding to comments on this thread because there is a small group of people (dare I call it a “pack”) who seem to be searching for any opportunity to defend Greg by criticizing people who were offended by Greg’s comments (seeing as how we’re in the midst of a political season, it seems appropriate to call it “negative campaigning”). I don’t assume you, or anyone else, was offended by Greg’s post, but it certainly seems disingenuous for you to insinuate that those of us who were offended must have an ulterior motive.”
How is that not a personal attack? You are smearing the integrity of people who have disagreed with you as a means of undermining their arguments without addressing them. How is this not an ad hominum attack? Or, do you claim to be righteous in offending Teri, Brian Mike, Russell, Geno and me (the only six from, excluding Greg, twenty-two BHB contributors who have commented on this thread) because you’re Dustin Luther? And, by the way, isn’t your blanket statement that the BHB contributor’s comments “search for any opportunity to defend Greg by criticizing people…” a straw man argument? I certainly didn’t read the kind of defense you describe into either Teri’s or Geno’s comments. So that leaves Russell, Mike and me. Have you ever seen any evidence that any of us is disingenuous? Do you deny that this entire thread is strewn with personal attacks on Greg, Teri, Russ, Mike, and now me? Is it your opinion that personal attacks are bad only if someone who doesn’t agree with you is making them?
By the way, thank you for taking the time to clarify the difference in timing, from the time Greg wrote the post you disagree with till you opened this “debate.” And perhaps, like Jay Thompson, you didn’t intend for this to get so personal. But are you surprised that the likes of Joseph Ferrara and Keith Brand of Housing Panic would jump at the chance to slam Greg under the blanket of your authority? And why didn’t you comment that they are disingenuous? Or do you believe they are candid and sincere?
Now, just how about your personal attack on Greg — when you imply that he is somehow “negative campaigning”. Greg hates any sort of collective action. He “jumped on the grenade” Sunday night (in BloodhoundBlog post number 2611) because he thought Teri Lussier and Mike Farmer were taking pot shots that should have been directed at him. I know from living with the man that he thinks it is very noble when people stand up for what he calls rectitude, but he doesn’t want for other people to get hurt in his battles.
This is quoted from a comment Greg made to a post by Russell Shaw (BloodhoundBlog post number 2623):
[Russell Shaw] > As to the specific statements regarding was Greg making personal attacks?
And with this I respectfully disagree — and I’m only even addressing the issue out of respect for you, Russell. I have every right to take satirical jabs at vendors — this is an ancient tradition in art. Glenn Kelman has had by far the worst of it from me, but most readers here are delighted when I take him on. I would expect his wife and mother are not, but, nevertheless, I have the moral right and the intellectual responsibility to express my views as compellingly as I possibly can.
I agree with Russell completely about the mob behavior, but I care only this far: This quote from Dustin Luther
I’m going to leave my opinions out of the discussion in order to leave more space for these people to see the error of their ways, apologize profusely, and re-enter our community in a constructive manner.
could have been cribbed directly from a Stalinist show trial.
Inlookers: If you laugh when I pick on your enemies — as Dustin Luther did when I was tormenting Matt Heaton and Jonathan Washburn of ActiveRain — and cry when I pick on your buddies, that just means you don’t think consistently. What matters to you is neither the argument nor the satire, but simply whose ox is gored. One could wish this were rare. Tune in or tune out — no one cares. Our traffic is off the charts, if that matters to you — and none of that is due to this controversy.
But if you cede your power over your own free expression to the rule of the mob, you will not have fallen victim to evil — you will have volunteered to make yourself a victim of that evil.
And you had better believe that everything turns on philosophical principles at BloodhoundBlog.
My opinion, stated as an opinion, is that Greg understands this episode far better than you do.
In any case, you haven’t answered my question: Why, when you have sent Greg hundreds of emails – and when he had gone well out of his way to get you into the L.A. Times article that is the actual subject of BloodhoundBlog post number 2592 – why didn’t you email or pick up the phone before attacking BloodhoundBlog in a huge public display? And if your attack was not aimed at BloodhoundBlog Unchained, why did you post a one-word attack starting with the letters “UN”?
I don’t know whether or not you care, but I really would like to hear a rational defense from you — one that doesn’t just obscure my question with yet another personal attack. But so far this just doesn’t pass the smell test with me. I’m speaking only for myself, but I’m very disappointed in you, Dustin. I’ve always thought better of you.
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Cathleen:
You really are serious about trying to turn this into something about me instead of examining Greg’s actions… It’s fascinating to read, but I won’t go there.
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[…] is a comment I just posted to Dustin Luther’s weblog. I’m putting it up here, too, so that people can see it (without the typos I found after I […]
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Dustin,
But I genuinely think it is about you. At worst, Greg was being very, very rude. But how is that new? He lampoons people and ideas that he thinks are fair game. This includes vendors. And I believe that you must have known this even before. So what has changed? I’ve got to go back to this:
I’m going to leave my opinions out of the discussion in order to leave more space for these people to see the error of their ways, apologize profusely, and re-enter our community in a constructive manner.
No, Greg hasn’t changed, but here you are trying to intimidate him into changing. He cannot “re-enter (your) community” until he falls on his knees and begs your forgiveness. Greg might be rude, but you are coercive. Which is why I think it is about you.
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To Cathleen:
For the record, I posted before seeing Dustin’s post. If you notice, my post is dated 2.15.
My comment on Dustin’s post (#1) is dated 2.16, the day after.
I decided to do the post after reading Greg’s totally “loose cannon” un-hinged post on Thursday. Read the comments to that post, Cathleen, and you will see that others also sensed the insanity. Also look through the blacklisted comments & you’ll probably find a lot more.
In any case, I do not act under anyone’s blanket or authority. (Well, that’s half right. ). As you know, I have posted several times before on what I consider a boil on the ass of the blogosphere. To say I needed Dustin’s blessing is an indication to me that you are trying to mislead the readers of this thread. You know I posted when Greg attacked Teresa Boardman, Daniel Rothamel & Brad Inman.
But in most of my posts, it is not so much Greg’s mean-spiritedness (which is huge against those who disagree with him— agree with him and you get a “Bless you, sir” and a hat tip. Disagree and you get a kick in the cod piece).
Frankly, I find more harm in his hypocrisy and blacklisting. (And that’s what MY post was about–did you read it?) IMO, he preaches personal freedom but practices fascism, stifling the individual dissenting voice under the guise of a niceness policy. A clever way to control the conversation.
Come to think of it, the “likes of JF” sounds like a personal attack on the likes of me. It’s OK Cathleen :). I understand you are upset but sometimes the truth is Greg is wrong. He does more harm to himself by failing to admit it. Had he apologized to Marc, even privately, that would show a compassionate humanity I, and possibly others, find lacking in his public persona. Can we all be wrong?
Greg is either a genuine blog bully or a shock jock blogger, looking for traffic (ratings). It seems un-canny that he proclaimed his traffic numbers after the shitake hit the fan. Coincidence?
I ask you : Do you think that post contained a personal attack? If you say yes, wouldn’t an apology be appropriate.
Or if you choose to ignore that question, then this one: would a commenter be allowed to use those words on BHB?
Now you will see the point of my post, is not the same as Dustin’s.Dustin unsubscribed. I UN-BLOGROLLED.
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Dustin and Joe:
I just wanted to let you both know that I unsubscribed to your blogs.
I actually unsubscribed to everyone’s blogs!
I was getting bombed by email messages and after I removed them, I would get an update and the same posts would show up a second time so I had to remove you guys!
Mind if I write a post on my blog linking to your site telling everyone I unsubscribed? I could use the hits for future purposes! I expect at least 50 comments!
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He lampoons people and ideas that he thinks are fair game
To lampoon someone goes beyond being rude. It means to ridicule.
From Merriam-Webster:
ridicule implies a deliberate often malicious belittling
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Isn’t “pack” one of those divisive, buzz-like McCarthyisms?
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[…] a rising star. Dustin Luther, founder of Rain City Guide, perhaps summed up his reaction best with this one word post. Other prominent bloggers also publicly announced unsubscribing to the Bloodhound Blog, including […]
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Mike: You know I am a history major and I think I have mentioned my thesis is on the Red Scare and the Cold War this semester, but you made me think of something asking that question.
My response is this: “Black Silence of Fear” all over again.
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Cathleen
From your first comment here it seems that you are trying to make it about UNCHAINED V. DUSTIN’S SEMINAR. Are you for real with that? Have you read your husband’s post?Further, If people have been turned off to BHB or decide not to go to UNCHAINED, that is of your own’s husband’s doing.
Surely, you are smart enough to realize that. Dustin did not write that post that triggered this mess. It seems that people are just generally sick of your husband’s mean, pompous attitude.
Look inward; look inward!
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From THE BLACK SILENCE OF FEAR
by William O. Douglas“This is alarming to one who loves his country. It means that the philosophy of strength through free speech is being forsaken for the philosophy of fear through repression.
That choice in Russia is conscious. Under Lenin the ministers and officials were encouraged to debate, to advance new ideas and criticisms. Once the debate was over, however, no dissension or disagreement was permitted. But even that small degree of tolerance for free discussion that Lenin permitted disappeared under Stalin. Stalin maintains a tight system of control, permitting no free speech, no real clash in ideas, even in the inner circle. We are, of course, not emulating either Lenin or Stalin. But we are drifting in the direction of repression, drifting dangerously fast.”
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Stalin maintains a tight system of control, permitting no free speech, no real clash in ideas, even in the inner circle. We are, of course, not emulating either Lenin or Stalin. But we are drifting in the direction of repression, drifting dangerously fast.
And you posted that because it’s the basis for the BHB comment policy?
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Bob
Touche. That is precisely the point of my post. Greg has free reign to lampoon, lambast and lacerate but the unwashed masses (the “mob’) must watch their ps and qs or it’s off with their mental midget heads. And those that do comment must do so at their peril lest Greg un-leash a maelstrom. This leads to milquetoast disagreement at best.
Is that your idea of freedom Mike? It’s not mine.It’s hypocrisy. It’s repression. Repression of the conversation, repression of the dissenter. Repression of the individual. That is BHB in a nutshell. An Orwellian Animal Farm led by a hound who is more equal than others. Look inward indeed.
And Mike, if you are for free expression you should be celebrating all who have raised their voices here and elsewhere, pro and con. For that is freedom, my friend.
Yes, Greg has the right to be an asshole but we are not obligated to be downwind of him. And we have every right to tell him he stinks. -
I was playing off Derek’s post as a nod to him. It applies across the board.
However, every site owner has the right, also, to run their sites as they see fit.
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I’ll be writing a post about this on my site.
That’s the beauty. We all have free space and a voice.
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Hallelujah, Mike.
“We all have free space and a voice” Bingo!
Greg used his. Dustin used his. I used mine.
Now, I think you understand.
Gee, it only took 92 comments 🙂
On running your own site as you please:
Yes, of course Greg has the right to run it like Animal Farm but I have a right to point that out so people who stumble upon the conversations understand that they are sanitized conversations, sanitized in the sense that DISSENT is not allowed beyond the milquetoast variety. In such a stilted, unbalanced conversation, Greg’s point of view will “appear” to triumph— that is propaganda. You can participate and help build that brand and say “I don’t know his policy, I just write there”. But that tells me you are more concerned with a place to write. And that is your right.
But what about YOUR work, Mike. That post you plan to write. How comforting to know that no dissent to that post akin to what is here and elsewhere will see the light of day in the comments section. Will that make you feel good? Or do you really want to know what people think? You may not know it, but your not caring allows Greg to control YOUR conversation. Good grief, Mike Farmer. A place to write?!?
The Chilling Effect of Mean:
One other point on repression: When bloggers try to express themselves in different ways (Marc or The Zebra video, for example) and Greg attacks, lampoons, lambasts, whatever, it sends a message out to others that he is watching them too and they may be his next targets– that is repression– the legal term is a “chilling effect” on free speech. I have received emails from those who want to blog but are afraid they may cross Greg. Some bloggers say privately they agree but do not want to post a comment to upset Greg. I know it sounds absurd but this is one of the side effects of being mean to other bloggers. But you don’t care, you got a place to write.
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This is hilarious, you RE people don’t have enough work in the industry nowadays so you attack each other on blogs ! I love it ! I’ll just kick back and watch more of the carnage.
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And Joe’s last paragraph on the chilling effect of mean just explained the true meaning of Black Silence of Fear.
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I don’t know what you’re talking about Joe, but calm down. You can comment on my site. Have it at. And as for taking 92 posts — huh? What’s your point?
I truly don’t understand your ranting.
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Why are you all worked up Mike?—I guess you missed the smiley face.
Where is your site?
If you don’t understand after all the words, I evidently lack the ability to explain it to you.
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I am a Realtor here in the Phoenix. I can say I’m looking to enter the blogging world, on my own time, through my own education…I really don’t have anyone’s educational / offerings on my radar right now…
CONCLUSIONS
– I believe that post in-discussion at BHB hit a tipping point, that was disturbing to many, as was myself and obviously to some of BHB’s own….
– BHB is now a Vendor, the moment you ask for my money and to attend a conference (a service) you are a vendor…which brings me to my next point.
– Although I find BHB witty and entertaining, I’m afraid I see them as JV vendor, not a Varsity Vendor.
– Why I see BHB as JV right now…
— Cheap shots. Good Vendors don’t sling mud…they simply perform to silence naysayers.
— Excellence is not achieved by putting down others. Prior to BHB wearing the vendor hat, cheap shots at vendors is toooo easy, anyone can do this. Why, good vendors don’t talk back, especially Varsity ones. Contrary to Greg’s thinking, in my mind, it does not elevate him to rip into companies or individuals, rather it does the reverse.
— Dish but can’t take it. I have to say…BHB can easily & distastefully target vendors and moreso individual people, as easy as breathing. However, the moment they received 1 post, consisting of 1 word, the hound got their panties in a bunch.
— You offended me. Simply stated, I had considered a showface at the BHB conference. Personally, I said to myself “Me too” as feeling offended. Russel Shaw was kind to apologize in some way in comment 71. But then I see Russel Shaw give me the finger in his latest post at BHB (now you want me to pay money to listen to you speak)?
NO FOR ME
I live in PHX, don’t need to fly, no hotel required and I can say I wouldn’t give BHB $25 to attend. I’m intelligent enough to make this decision on my own. It is not Dustin, it’s not those who say “Me too”. I am not easily influenced as such…its what brought BHB here in the first place (their own actions) and moreso how they dealt w/ the situation (giving me the finger).If BHB is wanting to connect w/ me…to attend their conference, visit their blog, maybe send some buyers to Russel Shaw here in PHX, maybe allow Brian Brady to push his financial reports on my future blog (whatever the goals of those at BHB)…I’m afraid you did not connect w/ me, rather I am pushed away.
This is a very educated decision and feedback I hope those at BHB will digest and take seriously.
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Greg Swann isn’t selling houses so now he’s trying to sell $150 seats to tell people how they can be successful selling houses
Sucker born every minute
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Bubble sitter – I think you sir have nailed it.
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comments #98 & #99 are the most accurate observations in this entire discussion so far (not just @ this post)
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You would think a master marketer like Greg Swann would have secured the .com domain name for his conference…..
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I wasn’t worked up, Joe, but nice diversion.
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“You’re nothing but a pack of cards!”
a reference for those who need it:
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[…] From comment #98 at 4Realzed – […]
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[…] really all about, Dave? My take is that Ardell and other largely-decent folks — including Dustin Luther, incidentally — are being manipulated, stage-managed in a political game being run by Joseph […]
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[…] in RE.net. Not until this morning did I have a chance to read the more than four hundred comments here, here, and here. I’ve had to go back the last week’s posts here to put them in proper […]
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Wow, Greg is great at creating controversy. I won’t defend him, but I think the blogosphere has over-reacted here. Greg was being Greg – exactly what we expect from him. He is not afraid to state his opinion and this was an instance of it. I guess my thought on this id: get over it and go sell some real estate.
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[…] One word has unravelled, unchained, and unsubscribed the real estate dogosphere. […]
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[…] have said elsewhere that Greg Swann’s comment policy is more about manipulating the conversation, than preventing […]
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What’s the difference between Bloodhound Blog and a porcupine?
With the porcupine the pricks are on the outside.
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[…] recent wankathon between everyone in the world and Greg Swann was a blast. Best I can tell, Swann […]
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[…] quoted from Dustin Luther’s High Temple of Omnidirectional Virtue. (”Where poking fun at other people is always wrong, except when we’re doing […]
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Hey, Greg. Tissue?
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I was offended for two days…but Greg writes some really good stuff. I can’t afford to stay offended.
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[…] But hey, you’ve got the hordes now. And you can’t bear to unfriend them, can you? That would not be nice. And remember, we have to be nice. The hordes may turn on you! […]
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@odysseus
>”What’s the difference between Bloodhound Blog and a porcupine? With the porcupine the pricks are on the outside.”
What a universal joke, thanks for the material
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